Just how violent are we?

May 31, 2009

Human Life International has documented more than 8,519 acts of violence and illegal activities by pro-abortionists. These crimes include:

  • 1,251 homicides and other killings
  • 157 attempted homicides
  • 28 arsons and firebombings
  • 904 assaults
  • 1,908 sex crimes (including 250 rapes)
  • 106 kidnappings
  • 420 cases of vandalism
  • 290 drug crimes
  • 1,616 medical crimes

In the wake of George Tiller’s murder, with all the hostility directed toward “anti-choicers,” as they prefer to call us, it’s good to have some facts on hand.

Here’s some more, from AbortionViolence.Com:

[Update June 2, 2009 10PM EDT.   Can’t see abortionviolence.com?  Google it and then select the link “cached.”  Try http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:hluVsgN4_bEJ:abortionviolence.com/+pro-choice+violence&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us ]

………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

Also, 520 murders and 360 fatal botched abortions by pro abortionists, including;

  • 145 pregnant women
  • 360 abortion clients
  • 71 other women
  • 110 born children
  • 164 wanted preborn children, and
  • 30 men (including two pro-life activists,
    two abortionists, and a sheriff’s deputy) Deadly pro-abortion violence has been reported at least since 1965 and is escalating rapidly, with an incredible 269 homicides and other killings committed in just the last six years (since 2000). 2005 was the bloodiest year, with pro-abortionists murdering 77 people, including 28 pregnant women (and their 28 wanted preborn babies), two baby boys, one little boy and five little girls, four men and two women, and seven other wanted preborn babies. The pro-abortionists almost matched this bloody slaughter in 2002, with 58 deaths, and in 2003, with 53 deaths. In fact, pro-abortionists have averaged more murders per year since 1967 (that’s 39 years in a row) than so-called “pro-lifers” have in the history of the entire conflict over abortion!

Thanks to Dr. Pete for the links.


Deliberate Engagement on the murder of George Tiller

May 31, 2009

The NYT reports on the murder of George Tiller, a Wichita, KS, doctor who was at the center of controversy for performing late-term abortions. Tiller was shot and killed in the lobby of the Lutheran Church he normally attended. As I write this, a search is underway for the murderer.

We at Deliberate Engagement deplore this act of violence. Murder is wrong, period.

Our thoughts and prayers are with Dr. Tiller’s family and friends as they struggle to come to terms with this horrific loss.


What exactly do you hope to accomplish?

May 28, 2009
At topix Laura was asked:
Laura, you and Brother Matt are zealously working towards some goal which remains unclear.  What exactly do you hope to accomplish?
I replied by referring to this post #295 http://www.topix.com/forum/news/abortion/T379L96HAMACVLPC4/post295
Question: It was repealed becuase it was not Constitutional in the first place, just like the laws against abortion. You never did address the point I made earlier (not to my knowledge, at any rate), which is that you cannot remove the 14th Amendment without negatively impacting far more than the abortion issue. To believe that you can do this and only impact the abortion issue is the height of naivete. Then again, I believe that’s exactly what you are, naive.

So “Constitutional” does NOT mean “written in the Constitution?”

If so then what does it mean?  Is there a higher and also a more fundamental source of human rights?  Not God but a moral structure observable independent of our understanding of a god.  (I add instructed and ordered by the God but I completely agree I can’t impose this on you.)

Or is it all just a ponzi scheme; where the powerful derive their benefits on the backs of those specifically or traditionally deprived of rights?  (In the past this was slaves, women, racial minorities, et al.  Presently its “illegal” immigrants, the underclass of the poorly educated often racial minorities, the yet-to-be born, et al.)

I really think you’re on track here even in our disagreement.


Post on AntiCatholics

May 28, 2009
Te Deum laudamus posted at topix a comment  #595 http://www.topix.com/forum/news/abortion/TR97172R7HJUQHQCH/post595 in reply to this post.
Ed Burke wrote:
<quoted text>
It’s simply communication. We ‘have a Failure To Communicate Here.” These people don’t hear you if you don’t respond in kind. I once had a seargant who was a mormon, in Vietnam, he refused to swear. No one listened to him, they wouldn’t take him seriously. It was the same thing. <end quoted text>
“Te Deum Laudemus” replied:

I jut want to tell you that there is no point in trying to reason with most of the folks in this forum. You’ll just get frustrated and they will have fun by testing your patience.
I have followed some of those folks in other forums of this site and they all reply to people like you and me in the same manner every time. They all fit the following pattern:
• They are atheists
• They are leftists
• They are self-centered and unreasonable
• They are always angry and unhappy
• They are aggressive in their responses and usually verbally attack those with different views
• They are convinced that anyone that does not share their ideology is not as “smart” as they believe they are
• They are not open to any facts that are not comparable to their views
• They think of themselves as open-minded. Most immoral behavior is normal to them. In reality, they are extremely narrow-minded.
• To them, we Christians are dramatic, pathetic failures. To them we are lost, hopeless and uneducated idiots driven by superstition and irrational religious mythology. They perceive Christians as sad examples of self-righteousness, hypocrisy and religious zealotry
These souls are the product of secularism, hedonism, moral relativism and materialism. They are the result of the immoral and decadent culture of our time. Because of their conditioning, they can no longer see the light of reason and their perception of natural law is very foggy. In the rare instances when natural law does surface from the deepest, darkest places of their hearts, they feel uncomfortable and immediately send those vestiges of reason back from where they came from. The consequences are tragic and harmful to them and everybody else:
Their conformity with nature is not well established
Their understanding of right and wrong is very fuzzy and consequently they can’t comprehend that every human being has dignity along with fundamental rights and duties.
Their intellect is darken and their will weaken as a consequence of sin
They cannot grasp the fact that human beings are more than mere animals, possessing a soul in the image and likeness of God.
So, my point is that you have done a good job of presenting the Truth to these individuals. You have possibly planted some seeds. But at the present moment, you will not be able to make them see reality as it really is: that we are all the loved children of God and that our destiny is with Him if we really want to. The prince of darkness has a strong hold on their souls.
However, there is something we can and should do: pray that the Holy Spirit may instill a desire for Truth in their hearts.
God Bless


28 Days on the Pill

May 27, 2009

An evangelical source has produced a documentary of the abortifacient qualities of The Pill. The documentary is called 28 Days on the Pill, and it  chronicles research done by a small team which includes specifically citing the abortifacient aspects of birth control pills/hormonal contraception – and very well-informed, affirmative advocacy of NFP (Natural Family Planning, also Fertility Awareness or Cooperative Birth Control).

Dr. W. Larimore, who was interviewed in the documentary…told the interviewer that the pill has “unnatural, high doses of steroids, has potential side effects including a potential breast cancer side effect, and may cause an abortion that you won’t even know about until you’re in heaven.”

“On the other side, is modern scientific Natural Family Planning – some call it fertility awareness – that’s more effective than the pill, doesn’t have the side effects of the pill,” Dr. Larimore said.

NFP, he said, “it involves the man and the woman, they have to talk together, they have to pray together, they have to learn together, they have to become one together. No wonder that studies have implied that people who practice NFP have higher satisfaction with marriage, they have more frequent sex, they have more satisfying sex, they have a lower divorce rate.”

“It’s because the whole issue of birth spacing becomes a couples issue.”

The documentary does state that barrier methods, such as condoms, are truly contraceptive, but that there are differing opinions surrounding the morality of them.

For more information, see this article at LifeSite News.


What I am learning at an anti-catholic blog

May 26, 2009

I observe :

  • that these things look like a “religion” to people who claim to be a-theist.

“Choice”
The Constitution
“Law”
“Roe v Wade”
“Science”
(They do not debate rationally about this.)

  • that others who are theist (of some sort or other) also hold some of these items in such fervent regard that they too see them as “religion”
  • that some cannot or will not discuss whether rights come from a common agreement that we collectively write called law or some semi-deity called “law” because perhaps they know the rebuttal to either would undermine their religion  (An instance would be that the word “born” in the 14th amendment means that no one can, should or ever can have rights before birth.  Another is that a baby is a baby in utero when the woman decides it is but is a fetus otherwise.)
  • that some honestly think that the bible says homophobic, abortion-condoning, Jew-hating things that are still required conduct for modern Christians especially Catholics  (Numbers Ch 5 is an example.)
  • that because some bishops, their chanceries and seminaries should have known better about reassigning pederasts and about ordaining homosexuals (and heteros) who are not demonstrably committed to chastity (agreed) and
    • that because some prevented enforcement ostensibly to 1) prevent scandal to the faithful 2) to rehabilitate the predators per then-current psychological methods but in part to cover their clerical backsides (agreed)
    • that bishops and the Pope should be tried in criminal court for conspiracy, fraud, sexual abuse and other crimes (disagree)
    • that because of this, the Inquisition, the Crusades, an evil perpetrated on them personally or  (fill in misunderstanding of history here) the Church has no business telling anyone what is moral
  • that data presented by a Pro-life person not only is suspect but moreover cannot be unbiased (an example is a discussion of the method failure and the use failure rates for NFP vs that of condoms.)
  • that sex is for fun and a human right and that any connection between sex and pregnancy is an inconvenient biological event like poison ivy or high cholesterol to be treated with medicine
  • that news articles berating the Pope stand on their own merits and cannot be debated based on the Italian, Latin or German original text that say different than the article
  • that “scientific” articles remotely supporting  abortion stand on their own merits and cannot be debated based on anything even other scientific articles
  • that any statement espousing a belief based on traditional religious teaching especially Catholic teaching even one supported by the evidence of science is not allowed in “rational” conversation

I do need to write what I’ve learned about pro-lifers.  They are of 4 sorts.

One kind who make one or two posts then leave because they don’t need the hostility.  (What does that say about me other than I’m not getting enough sleep lately?)

Another kind writes that “God will damn you all.”  One actually made no fewer than 50 one-word posts in reply to various posts; he wrote “Anathema!”  I wrote to him that we agree but he’s not convincing anyone.  (See www.deliberateengagement.wordpress.com/how-to-debate)

A third is folks like me; we’re not too numerous and we take lots of ad hominem comments.  I wonder if I’m convincing anyone either.

A fourth is a goad; they’re humorous and deliberately provoke the ProChoicers.  One used to address any prochoicer as “killer” conversationally not as a salutation.

I would appreciate any thoughts or ideas on how we can do better at this.


Anti-Death Penalty

May 23, 2009

John Paul II’s appeal saved future Korean president from death sentence

Thomas More Kim Dae-jung

Seoul, South Korea, May 21, 2009 / 08:45 pm (CNA) – A letter from Pope John Paul II asking for clemency helped save the life of a future South Korean president who was sentenced to death by a military tribunal in 1980, new information reveals.

Then-President Chun Doo-hwan had accused Thomas More Kim Dae-jung of inciting the pro-democracy Gwangju People’s Uprising on May 18, 1980, UCA News reports. The uprising was crushed by the military, resulting in an official toll of 191 dead and 852 injured. However, more than 1,000 may have actually died in the clashes. When Kim was sentenced to death on December 4, 1980, Pope John Paul II wrote to President Chun a week later seeking clemency.

Chun replied to the Pope on January 5, 1981, claiming that Kim had not been charged because of political issues but had committed “an anti-national crime including subversion.”

However, President Chun acknowledged the Pope’s appeal for clemency was “based on humanitarian consideration and compassion.”

Entire story here: http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=16073